Minor Camaro update

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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by rocket71 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:34 am

Those tools are the best ever. I can't remember which one I bought.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Will94SC » Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:25 pm

My clutch/flywheel assembly just came in, and it's over 23 pounds lighter than my old setup.

And there was much rejoicing.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by ScaredofAWD » Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:56 pm

Will94SC wrote:My clutch/flywheel assembly just came in, and it's over 23 pounds lighter than my old setup.

And there was much rejoicing.
Holy Smokes!!!
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by CabotTeg118 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:50 pm

Will94SC wrote:My clutch/flywheel assembly just came in, and it's over 23 pounds lighter than my old setup.

And there was much rejoicing.
http://youtu.be/NmPhaG1ud38
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by rocket71 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:57 pm

That's a ton of mass.... Our at least 23lb

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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Choray911 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:23 am

Is the Camurrica running yet?
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Will94SC » Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:55 pm

No. Yesterday I dropped off the rods & pistons at the machine shop. I can't do much until I get those parts back.

I spent most of Saturday just cleaning the general nastiness off stuff like the intake, front and rear covers, valley cover, valve covers, etc., checking the pushrods for straightness, all that good stuff. I've installed new seals & gaskets where I can for now.

My new valve springs haven't arrived yet--once they do, I can reassemble the heads.

Edit: valve springs arrived, heads are back together. Turns out I probably should have installed the valve seats before the valve seals.

At least there were only 16 of them. Who needs more than 2 valves/cylinder?
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Choray911 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:33 am

Will94SC wrote:No. Yesterday I dropped off the rods & pistons at the machine shop. I can't do much until I get those parts back.

I spent most of Saturday just cleaning the general nastiness off stuff like the intake, front and rear covers, valley cover, valve covers, etc., checking the pushrods for straightness, all that good stuff. I've installed new seals & gaskets where I can for now.

My new valve springs haven't arrived yet--once they do, I can reassemble the heads.

Edit: valve springs arrived, heads are back together. Turns out I probably should have installed the valve seats before the valve seals.

At least there were only 16 of them. Who needs more than 2 valves/cylinder?
If 2 is good, 5 has to be better...
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Will94SC » Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:07 pm

Choray911 wrote:
Will94SC wrote:No. Yesterday I dropped off the rods & pistons at the machine shop. I can't do much until I get those parts back.

I spent most of Saturday just cleaning the general nastiness off stuff like the intake, front and rear covers, valley cover, valve covers, etc., checking the pushrods for straightness, all that good stuff. I've installed new seals & gaskets where I can for now.

My new valve springs haven't arrived yet--once they do, I can reassemble the heads.

Edit: valve springs arrived, heads are back together. Turns out I probably should have installed the valve seats before the valve seals.

At least there were only 16 of them. Who needs more than 2 valves/cylinder?
If 2 is good, 5 has to be better...
Not when it's time to buy new ones.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Choray911 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:53 pm

if you have a motor with 5 valves per cylinder, money is not a problem.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by CabotTeg118 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:05 pm

Choray911 wrote:if you have a motor with 5 valves per cylinder, money is not a problem.
MkIV VW Jetta?
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Will94SC » Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:22 pm

Choray911 wrote:if you have a motor with 5 valves per cylinder, money is not a problem.
More than 16 valves (regardless of how many cylinders) is just asking for trouble.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by ScaredofAWD » Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:44 pm

Will94SC wrote:
Choray911 wrote:if you have a motor with 5 valves per cylinder, money is not a problem.
More than 16 valves (regardless of how many cylinders) is just asking for trouble.

I'm curious why you say that
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Will94SC » Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:21 pm

ScaredofAWD wrote:
Will94SC wrote:
Choray911 wrote:if you have a motor with 5 valves per cylinder, money is not a problem.
More than 16 valves (regardless of how many cylinders) is just asking for trouble.

I'm curious why you say that
If God had meant for man to have more than 16 valves at his disposal, He would have added more when He designed the LS1.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Choray911 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:23 pm

CabotTeg118 wrote:
Choray911 wrote:if you have a motor with 5 valves per cylinder, money is not a problem.
MkIV VW Jetta?
Couldnt find a 5 valve jetta head....
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Choray911 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:28 pm

Choray911 wrote:
CabotTeg118 wrote:
Choray911 wrote:if you have a motor with 5 valves per cylinder, money is not a problem.
MkIV VW Jetta?
Couldnt find a 5 valve jetta head....

Dang Cho!!! didnt you even look???? its the 1.8 litre. http://www.enginepartstore.com/images/p ... 00l--1.jpg
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by CabotTeg118 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:33 pm

I kind of want one of the prototype 36-valve V6 Maserati engines...

http://www.maserati-alfieri.co.uk/alfieri26.htm
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Will94SC » Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:41 pm

Choray911 wrote:
Dang Cho!!! didnt you even look???? its the 1.8 litre. http://www.enginepartstore.com/images/p ... 00l--1.jpg
I'd like to congratulate Choray for finding the smallest picture on the entire internet.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Choray911 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:08 pm

Will94SC wrote:
Choray911 wrote:
Dang Cho!!! didnt you even look???? its the 1.8 litre. http://www.enginepartstore.com/images/p ... 00l--1.jpg
I'd like to congratulate Choray for finding the smallest picture on the entire internet.
I do what I can.....
stupid internet!!!!
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by ScaredofAWD » Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:55 pm

Will94SC wrote:
If God had meant for man to have more than 16 valves at his disposal, He would have added more when He designed the LS1.

So cause God! NOT cause 'murica! Mm'k Got it :wtg:
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Will94SC » Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:30 pm

Either that or Thomas Jefferson sketched out the LS1 prototype on the back of the Declaration of Independence after punching a gorilla in the face.

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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Choray911 » Thu May 01, 2014 11:24 am

Will94SC wrote:Either that or Thomas Jefferson sketched out the LS1 prototype on the back of the Declaration of Independence after punching a gorilla in the face.

Image

Why the funk would Thomas Jefferson be holding the Declaration of Independence while punching a gorilla?????
That is irresponsible!! The Declaration of Independence is the most important document ever penned by mortals!!! That is just irresponsible. If it was damaged it would not have been preserved for future generations. Furthermore why the hell was Jefferson in the rain forests of Africa with the Declaration of Independence???
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Will94SC » Thu May 01, 2014 11:45 am

Choray911 wrote:
Will94SC wrote:Either that or Thomas Jefferson sketched out the LS1 prototype on the back of the Declaration of Independence after punching a gorilla in the face.

Image
Furthermore why the hell was Jefferson in the rain forests of Africa with the Declaration of Independence???
Because there was a gorilla that needed punching.

The artist did a series of those illustrations. I have this framed above my fireplace:

Image

Yes, that's Theodore Roosevelt, American badass, using an M-60 to gun down Sasquatches.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Will94SC » Thu May 01, 2014 12:51 pm

In other news: see these two back shock mount bolts? Whoever thought they needed to be Torx heads, and thought that putting one directly under the master cylinder was okay is a sonofab****.

Image
Last edited by Will94SC on Thu May 01, 2014 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Choray911 » Thu May 01, 2014 1:45 pm

BWAHAHAHAHAHAAH!!!!!! Yep, another reason the Camurrica is crap. But its fun to drive.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Will94SC » Thu May 01, 2014 2:21 pm

What's not obvious in that pic, and that I should have mentioned, is that the master cylinder is already unbolted and moved out of the way to provide even that much room for access. Can't remove that shock at all without moving the MC.

In other news, add the clutch master cylinder to the list of stuff I've replaced.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Will94SC » Fri May 09, 2014 9:24 am

Just heard from the machine shop: my rotating assembly is ready, so I'll pick that up Monday, and hopefully I can get the engine reassembled before too long.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Choray911 » Fri May 09, 2014 9:37 am

MURRICA!!!
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by drjeffapp » Fri May 09, 2014 5:10 pm

Think it might be ready for the June event?
Mebbe you should design a course for it's re-inaugural debut.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Will94SC » Fri May 09, 2014 7:25 pm

drjeffapp wrote:Think it might be ready for the June event?
Mebbe you should design a course for it's re-inaugural debut.
I really don't know if I'll be able to get it done that soon or not. I'm having a friend help rebuild the motor, since I've never done that before. And putting the motor/trans back in the car is a 3-man job, minimum. So I can't say for sure when it'll be done until I know when people are able to help.

Also, I do want to take some time to break the engine in before I go spinning the hell out of it. Is that still necessary these days? Don't know, but I'm doing it anyway.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by edfishjr » Sat May 10, 2014 12:38 am

Will94SC wrote:
drjeffapp wrote:Think it might be ready for the June event?
Mebbe you should design a course for it's re-inaugural debut.
I really don't know if I'll be able to get it done that soon or not. I'm having a friend help rebuild the motor, since I've never done that before. And putting the motor/trans back in the car is a 3-man job, minimum. So I can't say for sure when it'll be done until I know when people are able to help.

Also, I do want to take some time to break the engine in before I go spinning the hell out of it. Is that still necessary these days? Don't know, but I'm doing it anyway.
Yes, break-in is still required. (You can do a break-in routine on an engine dyno when tuning a new motor.)

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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Will94SC » Mon May 12, 2014 12:54 pm

Just picked up all the parts from the machine shop. Yay.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Will94SC » Mon May 12, 2014 3:26 pm

...and half the rods are pressed into the pistons backwards. That sucks.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by ScaredofAWD » Tue May 13, 2014 1:46 am

Say huh?
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Choray911 » Tue May 13, 2014 9:17 am

Will94SC wrote:...and half the rods are pressed into the pistons backwards. That sucks.
You have directional rods?
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Will94SC » Tue May 13, 2014 10:58 am

Choray911 wrote:
Will94SC wrote:...and half the rods are pressed into the pistons backwards. That sucks.
You have directional rods?
Yes. The LS1, like a lot of engines, has a dot on one side of the pistons. That dot has to face the front of the engine, not the back.

Image

Each rod has a rounded side, and a flat side. The flat side of the rod has to face forward. So the piston dot has to be on the flat side of the rod.

Image

Where the machinist got confused is that used the rod tangs (the grooves that line up the bearing in the rod) as his reference point. This pic isn't an LS1, but you get the idea:

Image

Rods and caps only have that tang on one side. And on a traditional small block Chevy, that tang is always toward the outside of the block, not the inside. However, on an LS1, 4 of those tangs face the outside, and four face the inside. Don't pay attention to them. Pay attention to the flat side of the rod.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Choray911 » Tue May 13, 2014 1:38 pm

I never did like Tang...
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by ScaredofAWD » Tue May 13, 2014 11:55 pm

See this is what I get for not having built a v motor
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Choray911 » Wed May 14, 2014 9:59 am

ScaredofAWD wrote:See this is what I get for not having built a v motor
What the hell does that mean?
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by ScaredofAWD » Thu May 15, 2014 9:17 am

Choray911 wrote:
ScaredofAWD wrote:See this is what I get for not having built a v motor
What the hell does that mean?
As far as I remember, the inline engine builds (couple of i6, couple of i4) I have been around did not have directional rods. After having it explained, it makes perfect sense to me. On a V crank 2 rods share the same connecting area (name?), so to minimize the space required one face of the rod would need to be flat.


AKA I didn't understand what he was talking about due to my lack of experience, and now I do
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Will94SC » Thu May 15, 2014 10:24 am

I think this is more a goofy LS1 thing than anything common to all V engines. Many other engines have directional rods, but that has more to do with the crank chamfer & shape of the bearing than what the rod itself looks like.

Anyway, I have all my rods and pistons back now and hope to get the engine together next week.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by rocket71 » Thu May 15, 2014 11:05 am

Still got that co - drive open?

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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Will94SC » Thu May 15, 2014 12:03 pm

rocket71 wrote:Still got that co - drive open?

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I have no idea when it'll be done, but you can drive it when it is, Berry.

But honestly, I think it'll be a disapointment now that you've been running the Vette. Less grip, less power, more weight. Tires are 2.5 years old, and it still won't have a working diff in it until maybe winter.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by stockerbill » Fri May 16, 2014 12:32 am

Almost all engines that have rods that can share a crank journal have "directional" rods. The reason is that the side of the rod that meets the crank radius has to have a chamfer to relieve the clearance to the radius while the opposite side which meets the other rod on the journal does not need a chamfer. The situation is exaggerated on "high performance" crankshafts which have a larger radius on the journal to the counterweight that is supposedly stronger than the "normal" radius. I don't know that much about newer engines, but the older Ford, Chrysler and GM engines all had rods that had a chamfer on one side and not the other and were therefore "directional". Newer manufacturing processes might chamfer both sides equally, but I don't know that for a fact. The number of engine failures (usually spun rod bearings) due to improper installation of rods by amateur engine builders who didn't know about this subtitle difference is unimaginable.

Pistons like the OEM LS shown in the picture are only directional for one reason and that is to accommodate wrist pin offset. The OEM LS piston shown is completely flat-top, with no dome or valve reliefs so there is nothing in the combustion chamber that would require the piston to be installed one way or the other. Requiring the "dot" or arrow to be facing the front of the engine is almost certainly due to the piston having an offset on the wrist pin bore. One would think that a wrist pin would be in the center of the piston diameter but that is not true on most production engines. The wrist pin is usually offset slightly to change the rod/piston geometry so that the piston doesn't "rock" due to the angle of the rod acting on the pin. In an production engine the piston rocking, especially when cold and clearances are the greatest, causes a noise that is usually called "piston slap". If a piston with a pin offset was installed backwards the offset would make the piston slap even worse and probably loose power (due to higher friction) and maybe even break a piston skirt if the clearances were excessive.

Most high performance aftermarket pistons do not have a wrist pin offset since gear heads don't give a damn about extraneous noises and think that a no-offset pin makes more power. So in the case of a true flat-top, no valve relief piston, it wouldn't matter which way it was installed. Almost any engine with modified camshaft timing or lift will require some notching of the piston and many aftermarket performance pistons like the nice shiny ones shown in the picture have valve reliefs machined in for that reason. Once an otherwise flat-top piston face has been altered in such a manner the piston becomes directional but for a different reason than the OEM configuration. (Notice that the nice shiny piston in the picture actually has a dish instead of a flat-top. It also has some small valve reliefs for both the intake and exhaust. All else being equal, that piston is going to create a lower static compression ratio than the OEM flat-top but be able to accommodate a higher lift/duration camshaft.)

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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Will94SC » Fri May 16, 2014 6:12 pm

Took a break from photoshopping Cho long enough to drain the gas from the Camaro. Remember, I haven't driven the car since 12/12, so the gas is 1.5 years old, and I never put any sta-bil or anything like that in the tank. I had no idea how much was in there, and I only had a 2-gallon gas can, so I've got another 7.5 gallons in 2-liter soda bottles because that was all I had handy.

Don't think I want to put that in any car I own, but think it's still good enough for lawnmowers, 2-strokes, etc.?
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by rocket71 » Sat May 17, 2014 7:18 am

Molotov cocktail training?

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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Choray911 » Mon May 19, 2014 9:49 am

Will94SC wrote:Took a break from photoshopping Cho long enough to drain the gas from the Camaro. Remember, I haven't driven the car since 12/12, so the gas is 1.5 years old, and I never put any sta-bil or anything like that in the tank. I had no idea how much was in there, and I only had a 2-gallon gas can, so I've got another 7.5 gallons in 2-liter soda bottles because that was all I had handy.

Don't think I want to put that in any car I own, but think it's still good enough for lawnmowers, 2-strokes, etc.?
Oh yeah... I have gas that has sat for a year. Mix it 1:1 with fresh gas & it will be fine. Just SHAKE IT UP!!!
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Will94SC » Mon May 19, 2014 10:19 am

Yeah, I poured 1.5 gallons into the MR2 over the weekend. First time I've ever poured a 2-liter bottle into a car.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Choray911 » Mon May 19, 2014 10:26 am

Now you have lived.......

Mark that off the list.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by drjeffapp » Fri May 23, 2014 11:56 am

Will if it's no-eth, we can burn it in the club genny
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