Minor Camaro update

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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Will94SC » Sat May 24, 2014 6:37 pm

The engine is as reassembled as it can be sitting on the engine stand. Complete from the throttle body to the oil pan. Can't get the flywheel/clutch in place on the stand, and there are a few things I don't want to install until just before the engine goes back in the car (headers) or after it's back in the car (water pump, alternator, coil brackets, etc.).

But it actually looks like an engine now, and I have a lot more free space in the garage.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Will94SC » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:21 pm

Assuming the weather cooperates, the engine is going back in the Camaro this Saturday. Anyone with nothing better to do is welcome to come by and help.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by rocket71 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:30 pm

I will be in Wilmington. Think it will be ready for the next event?
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Will94SC » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:46 pm

rocket71 wrote:I will be in Wilmington. Think it will be ready for the next event?
I hope so. I want to put a few miles on it to break it in before I really thrash on it.

Also, if it is ready, I may run the first event on street tires just to make life a little easier. We'll see.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by stockerbill » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:54 pm

I could probably help out for a couple of hours. Don't you live somewhere up near Georgetown? I am not far from there, just north of Mahan Gap road off of Ooltewah-Georgetown road.

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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Choray911 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:00 pm

Sorry man, I'm doing family stuff this weekend.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Will94SC » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:02 pm

stockerbill wrote:I could probably help out for a couple of hours. Don't you live somewhere up near Georgetown? I am not far from there, just north of Mahan Gap road off of Ooltewah-Georgetown road.
Yeah, I'm on 58 just South of 60. I do have enough people to get the engine in, so no one needs to feel obligated or anything. As I said, just if you have nothing better to do.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Jcford80 » Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:33 pm

Almost all engines that have rods that can share a crank journal have "directional" rods. The reason is that the side of the rod that meets the crank radius has to have a chamfer to relieve the clearance to the radius while the opposite side which meets the other rod on the journal does not need a chamfer. The situation is exaggerated on "high performance" crankshafts which have a larger radius on the journal to the counterweight that is supposedly stronger than the "normal" radius. I don't know that much about newer engines, but the older Ford, Chrysler and GM engines all had rods that had a chamfer on one side and not the other and were therefore "directional". Newer manufacturing processes might chamfer both sides equally, but I don't know that for a fact. The number of engine failures (usually spun rod bearings) due to improper installation of rods by amateur engine builders who didn't know about this subtitle difference is unimaginable.

Pistons like the OEM LS shown in the picture are only directional for one reason and that is to accommodate wrist pin offset. The OEM LS piston shown is completely flat-top, with no dome or valve reliefs so there is nothing in the combustion chamber that would require the piston to be installed one way or the other. Requiring the "dot" or arrow to be facing the front of the engine is almost certainly due to the piston having an offset on the wrist pin bore. One would think that a wrist pin would be in the center of the piston diameter but that is not true on most production engines. The wrist pin is usually offset slightly to change the rod/piston geometry so that the piston doesn't "rock" due to the angle of the rod acting on the pin. In an production engine the piston rocking, especially when cold and clearances are the greatest, causes a noise that is usually called "piston slap". If a piston with a pin offset was installed backwards the offset would make the piston slap even worse and probably loose power (due to higher friction) and maybe even break a piston skirt if the clearances were excessive.

Most high performance aftermarket pistons do not have a wrist pin offset since gear heads don't give a damn about extraneous noises and think that a no-offset pin makes more power. So in the case of a true flat-top, no valve relief piston, it wouldn't matter which way it was installed. Almost any engine with modified camshaft timing or lift will require some notching of the piston and many aftermarket performance pistons like the nice shiny ones shown in the picture have valve reliefs machined in for that reason. Once an otherwise flat-top piston face has been altered in such a manner the piston becomes directional but for a different reason than the OEM configuration. (Notice that the nice shiny piston in the picture actually has a dish instead of a flat-top. It also has some small valve reliefs for both the intake and exhaust. All else being equal, that piston is going to create a lower static compression ratio than the OEM flat-top but be able to accommodate a higher lift/duration camshaft.)
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Will94SC » Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:24 pm

Engine/trans/K-member are back in place, and that's all I'm doing for today. I'm beat.

Whoever designed the plastic clutch alignment tool I used for this job deserves a kick in the balls. It flexes as you tighten down the pressure plate, pulling everything out of alignment and making it impossible to install the trans. It took us longer to figure that out and solve the problem than it did to get the engine back in the car.

I can't state strongly enough how much easier it would have been to do this job with a spare T56 input shaft instead of the plastic tool. If you ever consider doing this job--and maybe it's just a problem with a dual-disc clutch--have that input shaft lying around before you begin.

As it was, we had to bolt on the pressure plate just tight enough to keep the clutch discs from moving, then lift up the whole trans (minus the bell housing), align everything, torque down the PP, pull the trans out, install the bell housing, then install the transmission.

That sucked.
Last edited by Will94SC on Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by drjeffapp » Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:46 pm

Who all was there cursing with you?
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Will94SC » Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:49 pm

drjeffapp wrote:Who all was there cursing with you?
My friends Tommy Lee and Josh, the same peeps that helped me get the engine/trans out in the first place.

I'm also about the same color as my MR2 now.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by drjeffapp » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:00 pm

same color as my MR2
from high blood pressure cursing or tranny fluid?
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Will94SC » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:14 pm

drjeffapp wrote:
same color as my MR2
from high blood pressure cursing or tranny fluid?
From a big glowing ball of gas 93 million miles away.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Will94SC » Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:30 pm

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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by rocket71 » Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:51 am

Keep us updated. Looking forward to seeing it in action again.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Will94SC » Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:13 am

I should be firing the engine in a bit. We'll see what happens.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by drjeffapp » Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:15 am

Why does it seem to me, that most 'Murica cars I've had or known others to have, have several parts that boggle the mind in the complexity of repairs?
'Frinstance - the 1998 Gran Prix I had, with the General's ancient 3800 V6, mounted transversely. It was like they forgot to put the oil filter on it, and realized after the built the frikkin thing. In order to do a simple oil change with filter, you had to remove the right front tire AND fender lining, with all it's wonderfully robust plastic clips that broke after the second time. And there was so little room for the filter that they put the very smallest one on it - literally riding mowers have larger ones. It was maybe 3-4" tall and about as wide.
Not to mention that in order to change the rear 3 spark plugs, you had to remove 3 top motor mounts, loosen the lower ones, put the car in gear, and push it backwards JUST ENOUGH but right before you punctured the radiator with some crap on the valve cover. This allowed enough room to maybe squeeze a 5 year old's arm in between the motor and the frikkin moronic bolt studs embedded in the firewall that would either leave you with an Africa of tetanus punctures or no knuckle skin left.

I know this also occurs in non-American models, but reliably every 'native' car I've owned has had something challenging to normal maintenance work.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by CabotTeg118 » Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:21 am

drjeffapp wrote: I know this also occurs in non-American models, but reliably every 'native' car I've owned has had something challenging to normal maintenance work.
I don't think that is really a fair comparison, because all of the work on your Mini involves "dropping it off at the dealer and let Scotty deal with it."
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by drjeffapp » Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:31 am

Only cause I paid for an extd warranty on the Mini, so I may as well have them/him do it, no?

I have had more cars than the Mini though. And I said every American car I have dealt with. The M3, wife's Toyota Siennas (had 2), Passat Wagon, my truck, my old Chevy Sprint (which was built by Suzuki and only at the end had a Chevrolet sticker put on it), my old Integra -- none had issues like that.
Just my observations.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by rocket71 » Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:32 am

Lol...and BMW water pumps must go to mechanic too. :-)
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by drjeffapp » Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:43 am

Not really - only cause I don't do plumbing. At home or in a car. Stuff leaks on me.
Hate antifreeze.

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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Will94SC » Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:55 am

I got the engine fired. Took about 15 seconds to get fuel to the injectors, but it sounds pretty awesome without the exhaust hooked up. Too bad we've got those noise regs.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by CabotTeg118 » Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:02 am

Sweet! Time to do a big, smokey burnout
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by drjeffapp » Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:04 am

Constantly ignored, never understood, and quite flatulent.

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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Will94SC » Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:13 am

CabotTeg118 wrote:Sweet! Time to do a big, smokey burnout
Well, not quite. I still have to bleed the master cylinder, brakes, and clutch, hook up the exhaust, install the sway bars, steering shaft, and chin spoiler, and put the console back together.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Will94SC » Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:15 pm

For the first time in 18 months, the Camaro left my driveway tonight.

First, I need to thank Phil for coming by and helping bleed the brakes. I thought we'd have to bench bleed the master, but it was good--it was really just the right front that needed to be bled (since I had to disconnect the hard line to drop the K-member). Anyway, we got them bled, put the wheels back on, and got the rear sway bar hooked up so it wouldn't drag on the ground.

I only did a very short shakedown cruise and didn't push it hard at all. One minor issue: the oil pressure gauge is pegged high. My research says this is a ground or sensor problem. Second problem: I smell clutch, but I'm kind of hoping it's just the new clutch bedding to a fresh flywheel.

I also weighed the car. At the Nashville tour in 2011 it was 3342. I weighed it later with the street wheels and tires (which are heavier than the race wheels/tires), and it was 3346. My goal was to get it under 3300. I'm sure people were laughing about my nylon bolts and whatnot, but damned if that car didn't tip the scales at 3260. That's still with the stereo and AC in place. It would probably need more gas to be raced, but the CCWs and Hoosiers should drop 30 more pounds, so we'll call the gas and rolling stock a wash.

Assuming nothing stupid happens, I'm tentatively saying I'll be racing the car at our first Jetport event.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by drjeffapp » Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:23 pm

Congrats.
how long you gonna run the motor before dumping the oil? Presuming it still needs a breakin oil?
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Will94SC » Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:41 pm

drjeffapp wrote:Congrats.
how long you gonna run the motor before dumping the oil? Presuming it still needs a breakin oil?
Thanks. I'll probably drive it down to the smog station (can't register the car without smog) and change the oil as soon as I get back home. And I'll put cheap oil back in it, drive it as much as I can to break it in, and then change to something decent prior to its first race.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by RACERSD2 » Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:52 pm

WHOOOO HOOO!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :D :D :D :D :D
Great to hear the 'Mero is moving!!!
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by rocket71 » Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:08 pm

That's awesome!
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Choray911 » Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:59 pm

MOTHER F'N MURRICA!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Jcford80 » Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:36 am

I'll be glad to have ya back in Pro class so we can defend our turf! We getting whooped by the out of towners every time!
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by rocket71 » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:06 am

OT...but we just dont have the prepped cars nor the level of addiction to this insanity that other regions have. We got the skillz just need more car abd more seat time!
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Will94SC » Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:43 am

Jcford80 wrote:I'll be glad to have ya back in Pro class so we can defend our turf! We getting whooped by the out of towners every time!
Don't go pinning the defense of our region's virtue on me just yet. I'v never beat John Brown and some of the other ETR guys. Even if the car was 100% for the next event (and it's not: the diff is still burned out from 2012, and the tires are from early that year), I don't think I'm driver enough to win pro against that lineup we'll have 8/10.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by rocket71 » Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:51 pm

On another note, if we can keep this new lot, we will get faster.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Will94SC » Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:49 pm

Related to the Camaro's rebirth is that 4/5 of my cars now run. I think the last time my running cars % was that high, I only had 2 cars.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by rocket71 » Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:21 pm

Lol. What's wrong with the 5th one?
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Will94SC » Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:42 pm

rocket71 wrote:Lol. What's wrong with the 5th one?
That I know of? Some sort of charging/electrical issue and an exhaust leak (probably a cracked header). Oh, and the glue that held the headlight lenses on melted and they both fell off. I've never seen anything like it.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by drjeffapp » Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:43 pm

GM product?
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by rocket71 » Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:00 pm

Zombie car!
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Choray911 » Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:44 pm

Poor caucasian car....
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Will94SC » Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:29 am

Jeff: it's a Ford. Cho: yeah, the white car could use some love. It still has a lot of nice parts on it--Konis, Eibachs, Eaton diff, 3.73 gears. It just needs an engine that doesn't suck quite as much. Mark 8 swap would be the easy button and a 75 hp boost.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by stockerbill » Fri Aug 01, 2014 11:42 am

Will94SC wrote:I got the engine fired. Took about 15 seconds to get fuel to the injectors, but it sounds pretty awesome without the exhaust hooked up. Too bad we've got those noise regs.
Congrats on getting it fired up! It is always a very tense moment when you turn the key with a new engine. Noise regs that far out in the county? We don't need no stinkin' noise regs! I used to run my drag car up and down my street with open headers pretty regularly after fixing broken things, and believe me, that was often since I was constantly breaking crap. The local bubbas (including the county commissioner) never said a word!

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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Will94SC » Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:20 pm

Well, today I was actually able to verify the engine has oil pressure. I ordered and installed an Autometer oil pressure gauge, and while the light worked, the gauge remained firmly on the peg. After checking connections, regrounding, seeking new power sources, etc., and not knowing whether the gauge was defective or I did in fact have 0 oil pressure, I was pretty pissed off. It finally occurred to me to test the gauge in the SC, which has a similar Autometer gauge--nothing. I pulled the SC's gauge and hooked it up to the Camaro, and it indicated about 60 psi.

So aside from the hassle of returning the gauge, everything's good, I guess.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Will94SC » Mon Aug 04, 2014 12:44 pm

Smogged and registered. Now for break-in.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by rocket71 » Mon Aug 04, 2014 2:58 pm

The return is slow but steady.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by Will94SC » Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:36 pm

Huh. I'm a moderator. Neat.
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Re: Minor Camaro update

Post by spmario » Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:20 am

Interesting...

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